> technically uninclined — they are the heaven.
> For the l33t h4×0r — they suck the hell out
> of their lives.

I am neither l33t nor h4×0r. I was a *maniac* for “Search Google for Historical Events” and GUI system configuration still sucked my life to death.

> I personally was a GUI anti-proponent (my shell
> live is GNU Emacs + gnome-terminal).

well, mine is “wmii + rxvt-unicode + emacs“

> But when
> I bought my laptop, I discovered that you really
> need something like Ubuntu to manage things.

hmm… I will bite now

> Well, you can’t sudoedit /etc/apt/sources.list
> or sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart in
> midst of a presentation

well, if you can click on Admin Menu then you can also click on X-Terminal ,only if you want to save your time but that will surely scare the hell out of your audience

> (I’m an MBA student —
> presentations are vital!). I’ve always thought
> about switching to something like Debian Lenny
> on my laptop.

Debian uses GUI based system configuration.

> But I’ve always found that GUIs
> keep people’s mouth shut; and Compiz will make
> them say “Aaah! This looks like Vista!”.

here you are right and I agree because this is truth.

> If you think I’m a GUI weenie; no, I’ve been
> with GNU/Linux 5 years ago (RedHat 7.2 or
> something). Was a great fan of Mandrake 8.2 and
>. Now my Debian Etch + Xfce makes my life.
> I’ve learnt that GUIs are great if you want to
> unlearn things.

fan.. of Mandrake , seems like you never tried Gentoo. regarding “unlearning”, you are right.

> Regarding the example you quoted, try editing
> /etc/resolv.conf in Ubuntu. You can’t. It’s
> function is managed by NetworkManager and it
> . will overwrite your changes.

hehe.. thats funny because I used ubuntu for 1 week and it *never* ever overwrote any change I made. You came from Mandrake and use Ubuntu and even after 5 years you still use a Desktop, so it will surely overwrite your changes. Since I am using it only from 2.5 years so it will not overwrite mine

I leave it to you to find the reason on why it did not overwrite any of my changes.

> Similarly, the fun playing with /etc/inittab is
> gone by the introduction of upstart. I haven’t
> got into grips with upstart.

don’t know what you mean exactly.

> I hated GUIs.

you miss the point. I myself use GUIs (wmii + IceCat). I hate GUI based system configuration, remember the GNOME Administration Menu ? In your case the Xfce Administration menu.

> > Decided to stick on with something
> > that remotely served the purpose. Well, you need
> > GUIs for some needs — eye-candy is one option —
> > for people with aesthetics.

eye candy ?

My wmii is most eye-candy thing I have ever seen since 1996, my 1st contact with computers. see it here:


http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshothq6.jpg


> Why I decided to stick with Xfce can be found
> here:
> http://maravind.blogspot.com/2008/02/valentines-day-in-love-with-xfce.html

will read it later.

> Great to see you active in Hurd list. IMHO,
> whatever is Hurd lacking can be blamed on Mach.
> Ever though of porting Hurd to something else.
> I’m having Minix3 kernel on my mind. Never mind
> RMS’s license claims. Can you try that for just
> the kicks of it?

Hurd is the Love of my life. Its my Life-Partner. Well I have one more life partner named copyleft . BTW, RMS said to me that he does not need to develop the Hurd since we already have a copyleft based kernel named Linux.

I checked Minix3 a long time ago. I even installed and used it but its BSD license kept me away. I am basically much more inclined towards preferring a GPL based softwares over other ones. That’s why I use Linux, not OpenBSD. OpenBSD is very mature and impressive piece of softwares but it is not GPLed. I want to breathe single moment of my life with GPL

I personally was a GUI anti-proponent (my shell live is GNU Emacs + gnome-terminal). But when I bought my laptop, I discovered that you really need something like Ubuntu to manage things. Well, you can’t sudoedit /etc/apt/sources.list or sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart in midst of a presentation (I’m an MBA student — presentations are vital!). I’ve always thought about switching to something like Debian Lenny on my laptop. But I’ve always found that GUIs keep people’s mouth shut; and Compiz will make them say “Aaah! This looks like Vista!”.

If you think I’m a GUI weenie; no, I’ve been with GNU/Linux 5 years ago (RedHat 7.2 or something). Was a great fan of Mandrake 8.2 and KDE. Now my Debian Etch + Xfce makes my life. I’ve learnt that GUIs are great if you want to unlearn things.

Regarding the example you quoted, try editing /etc/resolv.conf in Ubuntu. You can’t. It’s function is managed by NetworkManager and it will overwrite your changes. Similarly, the fun playing with /etc/inittab is gone by the introduction of upstart. I haven’t got into grips with upstart.

What is great about command line is the text-based config files (my .emacs being my favourite and frequently edited). It really gives you an idea of how your box is going. But what is lacking in text console for me is:

* Full fledged framebuffer support (it’s broken, not consistent and heavily dependent on the particular card)
* Lack of UTF-8 in the console. Thanks to the brain-dead design of PC. You can’t include more than 512 chars in the kb. Sure, there are alternative methods.
* Lack of uniform access methods in text console. SDL is full of hacks. GGI project looks promising — but is in infancy.
* I look forward to the day when my Emacs can do Malayalam in text console.

I hated GUIs. Decided to stick on with something that remotely served the purpose. Well, you need GUIs for some needs — eye-candy is one option — for people with aesthetics.
Why I decided to stick with Xfce can be found here: http://maravind.blogspot.com/2008/02/valentines-day-in-love-with-xfce.html

Great to see you active in Hurd list. IMHO, whatever is Hurd lacking can be blamed on Mach. Ever though of porting Hurd to something else. I’m having Minix3 kernel on my mind. Never mind RMS’s license claims. Can you try that for just the kicks of it?

For non-nerds, getting rid of GUI configuration just gets rid of the user, it doesn’t encourage them to learn.

Imagine going to the car lot and being shown a car that despite having an integral roll-cage and 500bhp engine; in order to start it you have to warm the carburettors for 5 mins (10 in winter), then prime the carburettors with a syringe full of ether while simultaneously turning the throttle and holding open the choke.

Compared to a normal car that starts with a key.

There’s nothing stopping me from starting my car in a similar ridiculous way, but I have no interest in that. GUIs are similar. They don’t prevent people from understanding how the system works — they provide a convenient abstraction.

Would you rather do away with some other convenient abstractions like “files” (really just a reserved area on the disk)?

I know. I think I need to choose my words carefully. I have updated my blog to reflect the changes and also included little more explanation.

I wanted to mean “FSF sponsored distribution”. IIRC, I read it somewhere on net. RMS uses this on his laptop. So, officially, I can call it an FSF supported distro and unofficially, FSF’s distro.

GnewSense was not done by the FSF. It was done by two individuals. And later the FSF supported the system to some extend. But it was never really an FSF project.